Question about 'God'

[Memento Mori]

'God' creates an immovable object. Can 'God' move it?

[MiG]

simple answer, yes

[Big!]

If God can concieve it as immovable would that not imply that God can not movie it? Yet, if we are talking of an omnipotent God, can he concieve something as immovable?

Great topic.

Big!
thinkthinkthinkthinkthink

[imported_Monkey]

It's immovable so even "God" can't move it

[TombStone]

Can a non-existent being create/move anything?

[MiG]

If God can concieve it as immovable would that not imply that God can not movie it? Yet, if we are talking of an omnipotent God, can he concieve something as immovable?

Great topic.

Big!
thinkthinkthinkthinkthink


oh shit, you're smokeys brother?

god could not conceive somethingas immovable

[Memento Mori]

simple answer, yes

Then the object is not immovable.

Can a non-existent being create/move anything?

This a great question to ask anyone who does believe in any 'God-like' being.



It's immovable so even "God" can't move it

Then 'God' is not omnipotent. And if 'God' is not omnipotent, why call it 'God'?

[MiG]

This a great question to ask anyone who does believe in any 'God-like' being.





no it isn't because they don't perceive 'God' to be non-existant.
i see your arguement from the original question though now, never thought about it before, but it is interesting.

[Big!]

oh shit, you're smokeys brother?

Yeah, that's me.

Then 'God' is not omnipotent. And if 'God' is not omnipotent, why call it 'God'?

This raises an interesting point. If God is omnipotent, then God can create an object which not even God can move, yet if God can not move it then God is not omnipotent. Each would seem to contradict the other.

Big!

[imported_Monkey]

Then 'God' is not omnipotent. And if 'God' is not omnipotent, why call it 'God'?

Because humans say "God" is omnipotent not "God" him-/her-/itself

[Memento Mori]

no it isn't because they don't perceive 'God' to be non-existant.


It is, because how does someone who believes in 'God' answer?

[Alex]

God probably couldn't move it, but God could make it somehow movable, and then move it.

[Memento Mori]

But then it isn't an immovable object.

[Alex]

But then it isn't an immovable object.
Yes it is, because he can't move it when it's in an immovable state.
But he can make it movable, because he's God.

[Big!]

But if god were omniscient as well as omnipotent, then he would know it can be changed from an unmovable state to a movable state and vice versa and would take that into consideration while conceiving an immovable object. Would he not?

Big!

[Alex]

Then NO, he can't make one

[ReggaetonInc]

LOL he cant move it. Period.
cause if he did it wouldnt be Immovable.
Past,Present,Future,
its going to be immovable.

[Memento Mori]

Yes it is, because he can't move it when it's in an immovable state.
But he can make it movable, because he's God.

But as soon as he makes it moveable, it is no longer an immovable object.

[Big!]

There is a lot of circular reasoning going on in this topic. Is this question possibly beyond our comprehension?

Big!

[MiG]

It is, because how does someone who believes in 'God' answer?


they can't.

a non believer can say he doesn't exist, a believer can't answer the question. but in not being able to answer the question doesn't mean that they are wrong or indeed that god doesn't exist, it just means that if there is an answer then it is beyond human limitation.

the closest thing i can think of now, is that for God to be omnipotent or 'perfect' then God must be immune to paradox. this suggests that although we can't possibly be able to perceive a solution then there may be a solution to God. we think in terms as possible and impossible, either and or, but God is not bound to our reality and our rules he is omnpotent. therefore anything is possible.

but even IF this is possible to God, it still doesn't detract from the fact that a human believer in God cannot answer the question...that is impossible.

[Big!]

So what is everyone's view on divine intervention? Those of you who wish to share your view, that is.

Big!

[Memento Mori]

Is that not worthy of its own thread?

[Big!]

Consider this thread, "Questions" about God. The previous discussion was all but over anyway.

Big!

[Memento Mori]

Well, people will read my first post and not expect to find another question lower down. I would suggest you make a new thread, but that's just me.

[Big!]

The question is relevent to this disucussion. We were discussing whether or not God could move an inmovable object. An omnipotent God could move an inmovable object yet an omniscient God would know this before making the object and therefore take that into account. So in order to momentarily remove ourselves from this paradox, I submitted the question on divine intervention. Divine intervention is the work of an omnipotent, omniscient God, is it not? Therefore the question is relevant to the previous discussion.

Big!

[Memento Mori]

I'm afraid I just don't agree with your justification. The paradox does not define attributes of 'God', but arises because of them. Hence, you could ask you question even if I had not asked mine, and therefore would be in its own thread. Also, if we go off-topic here, and someobody later wishes to add there point of view to the first discussion, then we could potentially have two discussions in one thread.

[A Prophet Of Fortune]

There is a lot of circular reasoning going on in this topic. Is this question possibly beyond our comprehension?

Big!


No. This question suggests either one of two things is true (if god exists. which isn't somethign I believe.)

He (and I say 'he' just for clarity, it's not a sexist thing) can either make something immovable or he cannot make such an object.

So god is obviously not omnipotent (unlimited in power), nor can he be omniscient (unlimited in knowledge).


As for divine intervention, it's stupid. Period.

[Big!]

Can the human mind really comprehend what it means to be both omnipotent and omniscient, though? We obviously can conceive of the ideas, we have words for them, but can we truly understand an all powerful, all knowing being without the ability to experience that existence?

Big!

[Alex]

This question is as unanswerable as much as the unmovable block is immovable by god's hands.

[whipcream453]

"A Prophet Of Fortune" i'll tell you the answer when i'm in heaven.

[mrnicksta]

maybe god can't move it but what about jesus? haha

but seriously, this paradox only highlights the fact that god was merely invented for the sake of a cleverly written novel around 2000 years ago

[kenz]

ye he can move it of course hes got powers like superman lol

[anna karina]

what exactly is an immovable object?
a mountain? cos i'd argue that humans can move mountains. a planet? they move.
i am struggling more with the concept of an utterly immovable object than i am with the concept of a 'god' tbh

or are you talking about a hypothetical 'god' moving a hypothetically immovable object?

[TheHitMan]

simple answer, yes

Yes
He's God.

[shifted]

i dont understand anna's post that well hey.

:/

every object is movable, if it is not by humans, ie. mountains, the earths own tectonic plates move it themselves dont they? unless there really is an imovable object..

[Rudolf]

What about something that cannot be moved, even by Superman on a sugar rush.

[kenz]

like a black hole or somethin? i think there is no real answer to this question......but the answer is yes he can move it cos he created it. i mean if he made it appear from nowhere thats more impressive than movin somethin lol

[mrnicksta]

@anna: of course it's a hypothetically immovable obejct!

@mega: the point is tho, if god can create an immovable object then he is not all powerful because he cannot move it. if he can move it, it also shows he's not all powerful because his attempts at making an immovable object failed (since he was able to move it).

[kenz]

your bein a bit hard on this god guy arent ya? lol

i understand wot u say ^

but the question jus threw me, i think a better question cud of been asked maybe

[mrnicksta]

haha, yeah, busting god's balls

i'm sure god could come up with a better question, but he's probably crying in the corner after all the mockery this question has brought upon him

[anna karina]

well in the case of a hypothetically immovable object, of course a hypothetical god could move it
if they have absoloute power to create something immovable, then they have the power to render it movable aswell, surely

[Memento Mori]

But then the object is movable.

[anna karina]

by my hypothetical god, yeh obvz

[oNe]

i thinks gods cool and hes my best friend
i have him on my top 8 on myspace

[clh3785]

gods a pretty cool guy makes humans and doesn't afraid of anything

[oNe]

well if he cant move it he should have it destroy and remake it

[clh3785]

God may not be able to move it himself, but hed put in motion an action that would cause it to be moved, for instance pulling the ground out from underneath it.
so it is not movable by any human and maybe even god himself, but even the weakest people can move something that others deem as immovable. you could say. depending on the persons intelect and the situation. this question has no real answer, nor will it never unless god actually makes something immoveable and then has to move it.. sooo we'll see.

[oNe]

well why will god create something that is inmoveable then move it or why would he create something inmoveable

[clh3785]

maybe someone double dog dared him to

[oNe]

maybe someone double dog dared him to
damn they got em good
its hard to refuse a double dog dare

[clh3785]

lolz

[shifted]

GOD in my eyes, stands for:

G - Grand
O - Order
D - Design

think about it ;)

[Rudolf]

Found this little gem :)

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" .... Epicurus ancient Greek philosopher (341 BC, Samos – 270 BC, Athens)

[nicodagift]

I am a pround born-again christian, and agree with a previous comment that we as humans, can not conceive "God." It is beyond us, beyond our capacity of thinking. I will repost a counter that has yet to be answered, " what in this earth does not move?" Further, MARK 10

2Some Pharisees came to Jesus and tried to trick him. They asked, "Is it right for a man to divorce his wife?"

3 Jesus answered, "What did Moses command you to do?"

4 They said, "Moses allowed a man to write out divorce papers and send her away."[a]

5 Jesus said, "Moses wrote that command for you because you were stubborn. 6 But when God made the world, 'he made them male and female.'[b] 7 'So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife,[c] 8 and the two will become one body.'[d] So there are not two, but one. 9 God has joined the two together, so no one should separate them."

10 Later, in the house, his followers asked Jesus again about the question of divorce. 11 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman is guilty of adultery against her. 12 And the woman who divorces her husband and marries another man is also guilty of adultery."


i put this here to show that God deals with us, according to our capacity not his. We wouldn't be able to handle it.

[soulpimp]

all i learned is not to question god who are we to judge him? he created us we got no right to judge him and yet it is he who shall judge us

[Cacteur]

I have nothing against those who find the need for an all powerful imaginary friend, but I do think he was created by man in mans image. I mean, "join my crew or burn in hell"... the guy is so damn jealous he has to be human. :^_^:

[Kenshi]

I have nothing against those who find the need for an all powerful imaginary friend, but I do think he was created by man in mans image. I mean, "join my crew or burn in hell"... the guy is so damn jealous he has to be human. :^_^:


haha i agree. you can read it all over the place, myths reflect culture and era's. i can think of somethings in religion similar to this. ex: women being the reason for sin

i think religion is just myths. At one point Zeus was really thought to be real, in the severe future most of us will look upon our religions now and laugh at our stupidity, that is if we make it long enough to undergo this change

[mrstrange]

What a minute. Now your saying Zeus was not real. WTF You've gone too far now! Damn you! Do you have to ruin all my beliefs.

[shifted]

First off, please know that this is in no way an attack on religious people. I do not intend to offend anyone here by what I say, but I will express my opinion fully and without restraint.

Religion, in my eyes, is a wonderful tool that is used to manipulate millions upon millions of people in the world, and when mixed with politics, complete human genocide occurs.

It is great that people find faith, but really, what is your faith in? Why would you hold it in something that has NO physical existance to you? Why not hold it in something that does? YOURSELF! Have faith in yourself, I am not talking just about believing in yourself, but having the knowing that whatever happens in this world is perfect, there is an underlying order to things and you are GOD. Yes, you are fucking GOD. Why? Because you manipulate every single even that occurs in your life based on thought. You might think this is crazy or "what the fuck is he talking about" but the simple thing in the matter is human thought is a very powerful tool. Why do you think the education system is so poor in many places? No funding? Bullshit! There is MONEY EVERYWHERE! All it is, is a scheme to manipulate and further disempower the people of the world. Why? Well mate, we are enslaved already, we work tirelessly thinking about money and what it can bring, yet what happens when we just become slaves to a single entity?

We are humans, and we have fucken value! I will not be told by someone that the mythical man in the clowd directs my life. Bullshit! I direct it. I make things happen, and I deal my own fucken cards.

Practically every time a war is started you see the "in the name of GOD, we must fight.." now come on, can anyone honestly not see the crap behind this? You tell someone you have to go to war, they do not want to hear about it, but if you appeal to their sense of religion, you have hundreds of thousands of people signing up..

I canot understand how people can live in ignorance.. like they say though.
"IGNORANCE IS BLISS" because you do not have to strain yourself to think..

One guy at my work is a Christian, and he constantly says how Muslims are the problem, and then the Muslims say how the Christians are the problem, for fuck sake, your meant to be about forgiveness, what is this hypocritical bullshit?!?! An organism will never destroy its reason to live, the Christians will never destroy the Muslims, and the Muslims will never destroy the Christians, but once they both realise that they have both made errors, and both have a tainted past, they will face dissolvement. You never hear about Christians being proud of all the medi-evil era murders and slayings they committed..

Again, this is not an attack on you, I am expressing my opinion, I just have a strong sense of inner knowing, I follow my intuition. When you follow your intuition, that is you following GOD. You are following the underlying order that is governed by Universal Laws. We are all one with nature guys, all one with each other. There is no seperation. Religion is an amazing money maker. I can just picture now how there are people bathing themselves in money because of all those donations.

The "GOD" created the Earth in 7 days. Brilliant! But he cannot make his own bank account?!?!?! I am honestly stumped here!

I am a pround born-again christian, and agree with a previous comment that we as humans, can not conceive "God." It is beyond us, beyond our capacity of thinking. I will repost a counter that has yet to be answered, " what in this earth does not move?" Further, MARK 10

That is where you are wrong. Nothing is inconceivable within the human mind.

We have devolved over time. Our brain usage capacity has decreased constantly and will continue. And the slightest of increase brings about major difference in brain function and ability.

GOD is within yourself because you can shape the outcomes within your life. Once you stop thinking, you are dead, because the Universe does not need you, by always seeking the truth and being amazed and grateful about how it all works, you are living my friend. The day people wake up and realise how everything tastes so different, how you see things so different, it will be a joyous day. The day people realise that they can think for themselves, that they do not need to be run by others and they have power, it will be a joyous day.

Everything is within our reach, you bring into your life whatever you consciously, or sub-consciously conceive, because there is something for your to gain, to learn from, to understand. To pursue knowledge, is to pursue greatness.

Some interesting things that I think ANYONE should watch:
-> The Spirit Movie
-> A Sidewalk Astronomer
-> What The Bleep Do We Know [Particularly, the Rabbit Hole edition]

All amazing, utterly amazing and insightful films, with immense power. Your thought can shape a lot more than you think.. And the wonderful thing is, these movies are only show casing the little door we have opened. There is still a wonderful world out there that we have yet to understand and experience.

Human consciousness is the only thing that will ever transcend, and we are losing all our power by going through systems that say. "Everything is this way" All through school, you are taught that things are one way, and one way only.. and that is where you begin to get lost from being yourself, your true self..

2Some Pharisees came to Jesus and tried to trick him. They asked, "Is it right for a man to divorce his wife?"

3 Jesus answered, "What did Moses command you to do?"

4 They said, "Moses allowed a man to write out divorce papers and send her away."[a]

5 Jesus said, "Moses wrote that command for you because you were stubborn. 6 But when God made the world, 'he made them male and female.' 7 'So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife,[c] 8 and the two will become one body.'[d] So there are not two, but one. 9 God has joined the two together, so no one should separate them."

The bold statement, this is solely a reference to duality.

The Universe works in a way that we as humans experience situations and events lop-sidedly. Either good or bad, happy or sad.

Duality exists because consciousness knows that for GOD to experiece itself [thus, you experience yourself, and your life to its full potential] it needs to experience itself in two, before it can be brought back into one.

You will never have Peace, without War. People that chase Peace, will only ever get War. People that chase Happiness, will only get Sadness. That is because you are chasing an illusion. It is already there, you just cannot see it because you have been taught to see the world in a certain way. When you can see both sides and come out in a nuetral position, you have gained priceless insight. Absolutely priceless.

The whole Bible is a story in reference to the image of man. Man is great, and it can achieve many, many wonderful things. You cannot have success without failure, and you will never know what it is truly like to succeed without failing. However, people think that they cannot achieve what is written there, yet it was written as a direct representation of the astrological references and of mankind. We have devolved over time.. instead of getting smarter we have become dumber, less intuitive. The people who wrote the story knew of wonders we can only imagine because we think it is out of reach, when in reality, all that has happened is we have lost the power to be extraordinary over time..

The greatest loss to mankind is when the story became a religion for the sake of manipulating thousands of people. It took the essence and power of the story away, instead of allowing people to read it in full knowing that they can achieve each and every single thing themselves with enough mental ability, it made people think that they are worthless, and that they have no value, because they cannot do what "GOD" can.

People took GOD away from themselves.. those that are breaking the chains binding them to this existance of ignorance are slowly waking up and realising how hindering the human race has been to itself..

10 Later, in the house, his followers asked Jesus again about the question of divorce. 11 He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman is guilty of adultery against her. 12 And the woman who divorces her husband and marries another man is also guilty of adultery."

i put this here to show that [B]God deals with us, according to our capacity not his. We wouldn't be able to handle it.

No, GOD will always deal with situations that are higher than our capacity. Why? Because we as GOD, know exactly how to test ourselves to further ourselves, to become better in all aspects of our life..

There is no mythical being in a cloud governing us..

There are only Universal laws that govern each and every single speck of consciousness with no difference, and we can only hinder our growth and potential..

And that, is the greatest loss to humanity in our existance.. losing that sense of oneness with everything around us.. and it is a beautiful, awe inspiring and greatly healing and humbling experience for those lucky enough to experience even seconds of the feeling of completeness..

It saddens me to see so many people not realise..

The beauty in what I have written, is that it is not right. But, it is not wrong.

I can provide just as much knowledge and information as the next man, but it is up the whoever reads it, to realise that hang on, there is something here, and to begin to listen to their intuition, rather than their head, and find the truth in whatever they read.

We need to begin as a human race to accept TRUTH AS AUTHORITY. Not authority as truth, because then we are blinded.

I am grateful to whoever reads my post and is able to share their insight, I look forward to learning as much as I can and hope mine is just as insightful for you.

Peaceeeeeeee

[Memento Mori]

tl;dr. :p

[Kenshi]

You will never have Peace, without War. People that chase Peace, will only ever get War. People that chase Happiness, will only get Sadness. That is because you are chasing an illusion. It is already there, you just cannot see it because you have been taught to see the world in a certain way. When you can see both sides and come out in a nuetral position, you have gained priceless insight. Absolutely priceless.


i liked a lot of what you had to say shifted and i appreciate you sharing it, my respect for you has grown. i think happiness is always there its just your ability to see it. some people are happy with nothing and others are unhappy with everything.

i believe religion, politics, and the media are stopping free thinkers, no one wants to find their own conclusion everyone wants one given to them. i understand why people believe in religion tho, its reassuring. people dont want to think they are nothing when they die, or that they were put here for nothing, so they create false ideas and train them selves to think that way, i know a lot of religious people have to think at some point, "is god real?" but what do most do? shove it aside. they dont want to think, they dont want to question they want to know. im surprised at how many people can believe something when its yelling right in your face, " you need faith, because there is no proof, so just blindly believe, and have faith"

i dont believe we are god, but i think we are the god of what is immediately around us. but i think with technology we will become god, but i dont want to see what happens then.

To pursue knowledge, is to pursue greatness.
that will forever be true. im trying to start early, i study at home almost everyday. things im not learning in school, things I want to know not what they want me to know

i believe we are one with the universe to an extent, but not they way your are speaking. i know we are needed for the ecosystem, but the laws of the universe i dont know, and i dont think any of us do.

i have a more pessimistic outlook on life, but im still optimistic. i know most of you wont agree with me, but i think we are nothing, we are unimportant. and we are full of ourselves thinking that we are more important then lets say a dog or a rat. We developed a frontal lobe which gave us a higher power of thinking so we now think we need a reason to be here, or we need somewhere to go when we die. we evolved, we didnt use to have that cognitive part of our brain that separates instincts and "rationality". think about it, do you think single celled organisms have a god? we evolved and now all of a sudden we have one and a place to go when we die? i think when we die we cease to exist, just like every other animal. we are as meaningless as the bug on the ground. we just like to think we arent. but im optimistic, it doesnt matter to me im still determined to make something of my life with the evolved brain that i have because it will make me happy, it will make my world, it will put meaning in my life. therefore creating a reason i am here. i think our goal in life, is to have meaning to why we are here, but not for someone else or for a god, for ourselves. This is a secondary goal tho, primary goal is just like every other animal, to survive.

We have instincts just like all animals, we are greedy just like all animals, greed is not taught, its embedded, generosity is taught

and a lot of this might not make sense because it was hard to put into words i never have before.

[mrnicksta]

i have a more pessimistic outlook on life, but im still optimistic....


expect nothing, and always be delighted :lol:


We have instincts just like all animals, we are greedy just like all animals, greed is not taught, its embedded, generosity is taught

too true, we are instinctively programmed to be selfish in order to perpetuate one's life - it's all about survival. one philosopher (who i can't name right now) postulated that there is no such thing as a selfless action

[Rudolf]

too true, we are instinctively programmed to be selfish in order to perpetuate one's life - it's all about survival. one philosopher (who i can't name right now) postulated that there is no such thing as a selfless action

Veda Upanishads

[Kenshi]

there is no such thing as a selfless action
that is very true, i have never applied it to everything tho, i might start.

[mrnicksta]

when someone first proposed it to me i spent forever trying to think of a selfless action, but it turned out my efforts were futile. even the most seemingly selfless acts can be shown to be selfish in nature.

E.G

donating to charity - to acquire a sense of well being knowing that you have helped someone out
saving someones life - to avoid living with the guilt of knowing you could have helped


would be interesting to see if anyone could come up with some harder to expose "selfless" acts

[Cacteur]

We have instincts just like all animals, we are greedy just like all animals, greed is not taught, its embedded, generosity is taught


...
too true, we are instinctively programmed to be selfish in order to perpetuate one's life - it's all about survival. .......

Bloody rubbish. (Wid respect ;)) Homo Sapiens have become the dominant species on earth precisely because we co-operate with each other. Humans have realised that helping each other is helping yourself, and is ultimately the key to our survival. If a lion decides to take on a human, he takes on humanity as a whole, and thousands of years of shared knowledge. He'll get hunted down by the rest of us and end up with a 303 up his arse.

We combine and share our skills, we trade with each other, we set rules to live by that benefit us all. We create complex communication networks that enable me to yarn to folks all over the planet. When we do not act selflessly to each other during wars and conflicts, that co-operative instinct breaks down and we are at our most vulnerable.

I believe wise men in the past have realised this, and created all sorts of mythical corporeal deities to convince us to live in harmony with each other, for the good of us all. The dreadful irony is that we have managed to start wars over these very deities.

If you only learn to fight to get what you want, you'll only get your arse kicked one day. However if you run up a lot of karma credits and make friends, getting what you want becomes so much easier. Like..... sharing music..:D


expect nothing, and always be delighted :lol:


Now I do agree with this one, and it's the key to my response above. I don't help people to get payback. I wouldn't save a man to stop feeling guilty, and I don't give to charity to salve my conscious. I do it because I can and it's a survival instinct. I don't expect anything but if I do get a comeback, it's a pleasant surprise. People are my tribe, my crew, and we look after each other, simple. :thumbsup:

[Kenshi]

to cacteur,

but it still means we only help each other to help ourselves. because we are stronger when together, it doesn't mean we are not greedy.

[Cacteur]

to cacteur,

but it still means we only help each other to help ourselves. because we are stronger when together, it doesn't mean we are not greedy.

No, I'm saying to me, being greedy is wrong and is absolutely not compatible with human survival. People get greedy, and shit happens, ie the current economic situation. Wise people realise this and act accordingly. Thick people go for the quick gratification and end up suffering.

Getting pissed (drunk, or stoned) is a good buzz right? But if you get greedy, get pissed or stoned all the time, pretty soon you are a scabby useless dickhead with a habit and no friends. Same with wealth. Having plenty of money is cool. Spend your entire life trying to make more and you totally miss the point of living..... right? :)

[shifted]

Some interesting points have been raised. Kenshi I also have some things to say about your idea of our "un-importance"

And mrnicksta, you are correct. There is no such thing as a selfless action. Even in tithing it is near impossible.

But one of the laws of the Universe is, to receive, you have to give, and to give, you must receive. So even though these are not selfless actions, it is the humbling and gratefulness you receive and show that makes it somewhat selfless. The people out there expecting greatness by yelling to everyone they give to charity will never receive nothing.. because they are looking for recognition and attention and are placing limitations on themselves along with how they want to receive whatever it is they want instead of it coming to them in a complete state of quantum love..

Anyway, at TAFE at the moment, next class in a couple minutes, so will reply to a couple more things later this arvo.. :)

[shifted]

i liked a lot of what you had to say shifted and i appreciate you sharing it, my respect for you has grown. i think happiness is always there its just your ability to see it. some people are happy with nothing and others are unhappy with everything.

If you constantly chase an illusion, you will only ever face dispair on your life, and you will miss out on the pure essence of living.

Also, you will be amazed by what the average person lives through.. you think rape and abuse is a rare case that only happens to certain people and it is unfortunate.. it happens to more of the population than you think, and the insight many people can provide is intense. The only problem is so many people just do not allow themselves the time to be in the presence of beings that can share an amazing view and an amazing insight, instead they will focus on their illusions, allowing low-priority items to take control on their mind, and that is where people begin to lose..

i believe religion, politics, and the media are stopping free thinkers, no one wants to find their own conclusion everyone wants one given to them. i understand why people believe in religion tho, its reassuring. people dont want to think they are nothing when they die, or that they were put here for nothing, so they create false ideas and train them selves to think that way, i know a lot of religious people have to think at some point, "is god real?" but what do most do? shove it aside. they dont want to think, they dont want to question they want to know. im surprised at how many people can believe something when its yelling right in your face, " you need faith, because there is no proof, so just blindly believe, and have faith"

i dont believe we are god, but i think we are the god of what is immediately around us. but i think with technology we will become god, but i dont want to see what happens then.

The religion, media and politics are limiting humanity greatly. I never listen or watch anything religious, do not bother paying attention to politics, and do not watch the news. Whatever information I want to find, it can be found often on the internet with a much greater understanding.

The media, religion, and politics are all used to manipulate, propogate and perpetuate typical stereotypes to suit their agenda. Often the driving force is fear, lulling people into a state where they think they are helpless and cannot achieve anything.

You really sit down and have a listen to a lot of what is said.. and think about what people begin to fear when they hear it..

Classic example is 9/11..

How many times did you hear the word "Terrorism"? Almost every second word.. And even now you see it because people think it is something to fear, when it is an organised government scheme to manipulate and gain what they require from the public. People will argue and say that is not the case, but honestly, how much do you have to put yourself through before you realise what is going on in our existance..

that will forever be true. im trying to start early, i study at home almost everyday. things im not learning in school, things I want to know not what they want me to know

i believe we are one with the universe to an extent, but not they way your are speaking. i know we are needed for the ecosystem, but the laws of the universe i dont know, and i dont think any of us do.

School makes you think a certain way, you are taught one way, and one way only.

Watch "A Sidewalk Astronomer", it is somewhere on this site, and he says himself that the idiots in the world [in regard to a particular statement I cannot recall at the moment] are the ones who went into high-school. I think it was in regard to the big bang theory, and the way he explains it is absolutely astonishing.

The worst system of schooling to go through is a religious based schooling system. However, they are smart. They mix religion with politics, achieving much wealth supremacy, along with a massive young base of people that will perpetuate their cause further as their minds are moulded. But the system won't tell you that! They just prefer you not to be able to think for yourselves slowly!

Also, you go up to many wealthy people [and I am not just talking about monetary here.. family, spiritually, financially, etc.] and they will tell you many of the same things I have [these are very wise people mind you] and most wealthy businessmen will say the same rule over and over.. you have to give to receive, and receive to give. A lot of people will not allow themselves to receive because they think they do not deserve it, but it can be a very humbling experience when you allow yourself to receive something. And it often is a humbling experience for the person who gives.

The laws of the Universe are many, and these are just basic.. people begin to think too complex and do not realise that simplicity is the key. Where did we all go so wrong? Things should be easy, not hard.. and it is true.

i have a more pessimistic outlook on life, but im still optimistic. i know most of you wont agree with me, but i think we are nothing, we are unimportant. and we are full of ourselves thinking that we are more important then lets say a dog or a rat. We developed a frontal lobe which gave us a higher power of thinking so we now think we need a reason to be here, or we need somewhere to go when we die. we evolved, we didnt use to have that cognitive part of our brain that separates instincts and "rationality". think about it, do you think single celled organisms have a god? we evolved and now all of a sudden we have one and a place to go when we die? i think when we die we cease to exist, just like every other animal. we are as meaningless as the bug on the ground. we just like to think we arent. but im optimistic, it doesnt matter to me im still determined to make something of my life with the evolved brain that i have because it will make me happy, it will make my world, it will put meaning in my life. therefore creating a reason i am here. i think our goal in life, is to have meaning to why we are here, but not for someone else or for a god, for ourselves. This is a secondary goal tho, primary goal is just like every other animal, to survive.

We have instincts just like all animals, we are greedy just like all animals, greed is not taught, its embedded, generosity is taught

and a lot of this might not make sense because it was hard to put into words i never have before.

I think you are wrong with that statement about us being un-important. We are very important. The human body has evolved, but consciousness gives us life. The meaning of life, is love, and the expression of it is gratitude. Consciousness will always evolve and transcend, the human body in physical will not. Our purpose is to continue the evolution, because it is our mind that is powerful enough to comprehend and to understand, and to act upon the situations that present themselves to us in life.. only to evolve continuously.. yet we have a rich experience of these because we allow ourselves to be immersed.. it is a very, very humbling experience to be in our position.. you must be grateful in life, or you will lose everything, and that is no lie. We are GOD, you will see this more and more each day, because it is all up to us. Everything. You do not have to create a reason to be here.. you are here for a purpose, you just have to find it.. I know a lot of this is difficult to comprehend, but at some point I am sure you will see this yourself. Everybody learns at their own pace, and everyone achieves different aspects in life bcause of their purpose.

Remember this also:

A Career is not your Vocation. They are two completely seperate entities. A Career should only be used to fund your vocation, and if you are able to combine the two, and thus make money and a career from your vocation, you have achieved great essence.

We have instincts like animals because we are animals. Greed is not taught, it is placed upon people due to social deprivation. And the cycle will always continue.. There is no seperation between us and between the Earth and every aspect within our life.. the possibilities are utterly endless.

[Kenshi]

but WHAT are we important to, and who is to judge what is important, what is the big picture. who is to say all of planet earth is even important, yeah it is to billions of people, but it could be completely meaningless to even more whether that be other living things or things we cant comprehend


We have instincts like animals because we are animals. Greed is not taught, it is placed upon people due to social deprivation. And the cycle will always continue.. There is no seperation between us and between the Earth and every aspect within our life.. the possibilities are utterly endless.

i agree with this now, if we have an endless supply of something, we will not be greedy about it, it is when we understand at a young age that resources are scarce is when we develop greed.

[mrnicksta]

Humans have realised that helping each other is helping yourself, and is ultimately the key to our survival.

if this is the case, then this is proof that all acts are selfish! if we have realised that by helping each other we can help ourselves, then surely the act of helping another is for personal gain, and therefore is selfish in nature. and if that is ultimately the key to human survival (which in itself is a selfish pursuit), then we use selfish acts to achieve a selfish end i.e. survival.

The religion, media and politics are limiting humanity greatly. I never listen or watch anything religious, do not bother paying attention to politics, and do not watch the news. Whatever information I want to find, it can be found often on the internet with a much greater understanding.

it may be the case that these three are limiting free thought, but that does not mean you should be ignorant of these things. i try my best to keep up with everything in the news, but ensure i take it all with a pinch of salt and a healthy dose of scepticism. by ignoring what people are trying to push on you, you are only becoming as ignorant as those who have fallen for the crap that these establishments spew upon us. know thy enemy

plus the internet is often as biased as anything else e.g. there have been many recorded instances of people altering articles on wikipedia to bend the truth in a way they see favourable - and i bet wikipedia is usually your first stop for information online! never truly believe anything you read or hear - there is no real truth, only a truth veiled in opinion and perspective

[shifted]

@ Kenshi, what are we important for?

Well, as we have the ability of thought to a level that is unsurpassed by any other animal, it is our ability to evolve our consciousness that allows us to remain.

@mrnicksta,

I will hear pretty much everything going on in the world through the radio, or through everyone around me who constantly discusses what is going on. I do not remain ignorant, and nor is Wikipedia my source of information!

You can find really interesting pieces of information around the world on the net that you just would not hear on yours news station. Often, opinions that will not be expressed on the news because they contradict what the media is aiming to achieve. The media is completely biased and totally subjective.

What I am saying is you have to be the judge on the information yourself.

I do not believe Wikipedia to be a great source of any information because it can always be changed to suit someones opinion and is thus totally useless and can be subjected to bias and manipulation to the same level as the news you get. I am in no way saying be ignorant to what is around you, I myself just receive the information differently, and base my opinion by what I feel is within my intuition instead of trying to make logic thru my head.

The cycle the media has is never changing.. The only thing that differs is delivery but that is mainly in concern of advertisements, not "news stories". You will always hear stories about some clown who lost his license.. but you will never hear stories about how deprived the schooling, education, and health system is.. because they do not want you to know information that could make you think for yourself..

[Kenshi]

Well, as we have the ability of thought to a level that is unsurpassed by any other animal, it is our ability to evolve our consciousness that allows us to remain.

evolving our consciousness doesnt make us important, it just makes us think we are.

[shifted]

Well, does it honestly make a difference if we are or not?

At least we have the ability to alter what happens to us, and within our world.. No one else can.. so you say we are not important, but the reason everything happens in this world the way it does is because of us.. We are important, because we can make the choices necessary to continue life and evolve, or begin our own self-destruction in a sense and die.. No one can take that power away from you unless you give up..

Hence, never let someone try stop you from being a free-thinker. :)

[Cacteur]

if this is the case, then this is proof that all acts are selfish! if we have realised that by helping each other we can help ourselves, then surely the act of helping another is for personal gain, and therefore is selfish in nature. and if that is ultimately the key to human survival (which in itself is a selfish pursuit), then we use selfish acts to achieve a selfish end i.e. survival.


Pedantic little bastard 'aint ya. :D I'm gonna have to throw the book at ya again mrnicksta.

...sé'lfísh a. ~ deficient in consideration for others, thinking chiefly of one's own personal profit or pleasure, actuated by self interest [of motive etc.] Oxford Concise

I'll still say it again, selfish behaviour is not conducive to human survival. You subscribe to a theory known as The Selfish Theory Of Morals (that pursuit of personal profit or pleasure is the ultimate motive of every action.) I consider this theory bullshit, created to give capitalism some kind of philosophical justification. Capitalism may have won the war against communism, but if it is not regulated in some way soon, it will destroy us. The US, capitalism's great hope has now seen fit to bail out struggling business's. Now if that 'aint socialism I'd like to know what is. I wonder how long it will take the US admin to see the good in bailing out struggling families.

This is a big argument mrnicksta, and is at the root of many of the worlds recent conflicts. I imagine it will be a while before humanity resolves it, but I know what side I'm on, and you wont change my perspective.

Peace on ya mate. :afro:

[Cacteur]

evolving our consciousness doesnt make us important, it just makes us think we are.

The secret is a complex language. You say we're not be the most important species on the planet, but, because of our language and abilities of abstract thought, we sure as hell are the most dominant, by far, and as such, we have certain responsibilities. Part of those responsibilities involve utilising our skills and dominance to protect the rest of global life, and in doing so, realise, and accept, our importance. :)

[Kenshi]

Originally Posted by Cacteur
The secret is a complex language. You say we're not be the most important species on the planet, but, because of our language and abilities of abstract thought, we sure as hell are the most dominant, by far, and as such, we have certain responsibilities. Part of those responsibilities involve utilising our skills and dominance to protect the rest of global life, and in doing so, realise, and accept, our importance.

im saying i dont know if we are the most important on the planet, we most likely are considering our brain capabilities, im talking wide scale. im talking about galaxies. sure we are important to this planet, but i dont think pluto would give a shit if humans went extinct. and most of what we try to "protect" this world from is from ourselves.

post by shifted
Well, does it honestly make a difference if we are or not?
i dont think it does, because i will never know the answer or anything about it, but i just think it is cool to think about.

At least we have the ability to alter what happens to us, and within our world.. No one else can.. so you say we are not important, but the reason everything happens in this world the way it does is because of us.. We are important, because we can make the choices necessary to continue life and evolve, or begin our own self-destruction in a sense and die.. No one can take that power away from you unless you give up..

Hence, never let someone try stop you from being a free-thinker.

we are important within our own world, and i think we have power beyond belief and we have evolved into amazing, advanced beings with boundless possibilities. but i dont believe we are the smartest beings thinking today, and if we are, it is by luck, and we wont be forever that is sure. but i think importance is an illusion. i believe in aliens, so lets say there is millions of planets out there inhabited by unknown beings, we dont mean shit to them, and therefore this whole planet would be unimportant. Our whole galaxy could be unimportant,and on a smaller scale for example, im important to a small sum of people but i mean nothing to billions more. just like master chief is important to Halo 3, but he is not important in Gears of War, and it would mean nothing to me if a billion aliens dropped dead right now.

[shifted]

On a Global note..

This is the opportunity for many people to realise how pointless a monetary system is, and the complications that arise from it. Going back to a bartering system now only allows equality, but allows the possibility of a resource based economy.

Further, Kenshi, I think you are colluding your points here and there, but either way.

Our essence as human beings does not necessarily make us the smartest in the Universe. But our ability at expanding our consciousness, at being able to use moral judgement and intuition beyond plain instinct is what gives us, as the human race, the ability to be fundamental in the structure of the Earth. We could all be talking jibberish, but the fact is, as long as everyone understands it, and we are all on the same page, life and death become infinite as we expand because our physical and spiritual realitys would cease to exist in the pitiful state they are in. If we did not have such conformed views, and were not so manipulated by basic media, and did not ruin ourselves with fast food, alcohol, drugs, smoking and etc. and lived the lifestyle that allowed us a great use of our body in the physical sense, do you really think our lifespan would be measured? It would not, because we would be living longer, why? Because our ability of thought keeps us going.. So many people die so young after retirement because they never know what to do with themselves. Find a fucking purpose! We are all bred and taught a certain way, and most people think once they stop working, that is it, their life is meaningless, and it is not the case at all, thought like that [once you understand how powerful thought truly is] will show you that it leads to your own physical destruction. The point of being a free thinking human being, with a never ending thirst for knowledge is primarily to not only experience the true essence of the Universe, but to be able to experience life to a level beyond comprehension..

So many people go about saying how they want to improve their life.. but they never do anything about it..

Think and act! Do not dwindle and become a pawn in someone else's game..

[Cacteur]

im saying i dont know if we are the most important on the planet, we most likely are considering our brain capabilities, im talking wide scale. im talking about galaxies. sure we are important to this planet, but i dont think pluto would give a shit if humans went extinct. and most of what we try to "protect" this world from is from ourselves.

I'm gonna have to chuck the book at you too kenshi.

impór'tant a. carrying with it great consequence, (to person concerned or purpose etc.) weighty, momentous, (of person) having high rank; consequential, pompous. [F, f. med. L.]

Importance does need context. If you are making the context galactic then pretty much everything goes out the window. The galaxy is second only to the cosmos as the largest entity we can contemplate. No, we are not important to the galaxy, nor is the earth, or this solar system, in fact, this sun will blow one day, and take all the planets and species living on them with it, and this will not affect the Milkyway at all, and, eventually the Milkyway will collapse in on itself, and the Universe will not even blink. I don't see the point you are trying to make.

It would seem to me that the natural context of this conversation is human, or at least earthly, and, in that context, we are the most important entity there is.:)

[Kenshi]

the point in the beginning was i think we are unimportant. We were talking about god and a lot of people think they are important because of god and that they live for god.

and in terms of earth and life here as we see it, human beings are very imporant but i was talking on major scales even in the beginning, sorry if i mislead anyone. major scales being mostly out of this world, like after death,and other planets but also other parts of the world not immediately connected

[shifted]

Hmm..

See, when you see yourself as God, in your own existance, and that you effect everything that comes in and out of your existance, I do not see a problem with people sayig "they live for God" because in essence, they know they are living for themselves. When they say it in terms of religion, they are greatly misled my friend.

Also, on your note about life after death and stuff..

This is my belief, based on consciousness.

As consciousness is the only thing that can transcend, spirituality exists and a "spiritual" form can take place after death. Though the only thing is, consciousness re-incarnates itself all the time, why? Because it has to experience everything in duality before it can become one.

Also, if you look at the teachings of the Buddha, right at the start, that is a way of life, not a religion, but a way of life to follow.

[Cacteur]

the point in the beginning was i think we are unimportant. We were talking about god and a lot of people think they are important because of god and that they live for god.

and in terms of earth and life here as we see it, human beings are very imporant but i was talking on major scales even in the beginning, sorry if i mislead anyone. major scales being mostly out of this world, like after death,and other planets but also other parts of the world not immediately connected

Aaaahhhh. That god joker. I think I've already made my opinion of him/her pretty clear. But I would add that in the theory of 'god worship', isn't the idea to submerge your importance beneath that of the 'supreme being'? The absolute submission of self to god? That makes me think that god worshippers do not rate their own importance very highly.
:)

[Kenshi]

to cacteur( i have tried to spell your name so many times but i never remember and i always have to copy and paste, this is my first time on my own, IM A BIG KID NOW!)
it would make them unimportant yes, but important because it gives them a "reason to live" ive met tons of people who think their purpose is to do the will of god.ever heard "jesus is the reason for the season"?

and to shifted.
with the life after death stuff im skeptical about everything, because i have NO IDEA what happens after i die, ive never died, and i refuse to believe anything people about the afterlife when they had a near death experience and were resurrected. but ive said similar before, i think we are know different than other animals, i think their "spirit" ceases to exist when they die, so i think ours would too. if i think our "spirit" lived on then i would have to think theirs would too.

[Cacteur]

to cacteur( i have tried to spell your name so many times but i never remember and i always have to copy and paste, this is my first time on my own, IM A BIG KID NOW!)
it would make them unimportant yes, but important because it gives them a "reason to live" ive met tons of people who think their purpose is to do the will of god.ever heard "jesus is the reason for the season"?

IMHO, many people who claim a spiritual connection to the godhead, do not follow their own philosophies. They all strive for humility, yet many act like arrogant twats. I think people with real spiritual aspirations are extremely humble, and regard themselves as tiny cogs in the great machinery that is gods creation.

:afro:

As for the spelling, figediboutit mate. It is actually my misspelling of the cactus monster in FFX, 'Cactuar'. I intended to sign up to a site years ago using it and misspelled it as 'Cacteur'. I've since found that 'Cacteur' is always available and so I use it all over the place now.:naughty1:

[shifted]

Very wise and good points you have cacteur. :)

[GenesisDecep]

'God' creates an immovable object. Can 'God' move it?

depends how you define God. The definition of God is biased, until you can definitely define God you can't answer that question, it's just based upon perception.

[shifted]

GOD = you.

[Kenshi]

god is a word, nothing more

[GenesisDecep]

Can an object be immovable or has the technique not been developed yet - Impossible is nothing :P

[mrnicksta]

in my mind, if theres one thing that comes close to being god, i'd have to say it would be the time (the concept of). without time nothing would exist, since everything relies on the passage time - from tangible actions to the those on the most microscopic of scale. and thus without it, everything is impossible and nothing is possible. time defines when we are born, when we die, when the universe began and when it will end. what else can so closely match the supposed characteristics of god?

[Kenshi]

i like that view, never heard it before.

[nicodagift]

" If life came hear from another planet. They would think the chronological clock was our symbol of worship." - Hesi MOses

Time is important to man, but not to God. And for the record! Jesus is the Savior. I once didn't believe, it is healthy to question, especially when some of the most outspoken Christians are idiots and do not represent the gospel in the right way, BUT.... Regardless, the definitive of God and Savior is a solo journey. GOOD lUCK...http://pimpandhost.com/media/simple/1/thumbs/829c2090fc7f_1.jpg (http://image.pimpandhost.com/guest/1590965_x.html)

[shifted]

I will respect your opinion if you follow the religion, there is nothing wrong with having faith because it teaches the fundamentals of believing in yourself.

Also, Time. In essence, time never stops or ends. As consciousness progresses, there is no start or end. We see a start or end because we are so glued to our physical self. Because our TIME in our physical body is numbered as you know.

However, the spiritual side has no boundaries, and in essence, your spirituality still exists in physical form because you are able to recognise it, so again.. time never stops.

Though this saying is completely true:

The most valuable thing in life is time. Because once it is taken, you can never give it back.

[nicodagift]

The most important thing in the in the world is the choices we make! Time is a figment of our imagination. Something that we have created to help us get through the day. - me

My friend, I am not a religious person. Religion is tradition, religion is ritual. I am a beleiver in the gospel of Christ, and a worshiper of our Holy Father. RELIGION. Will always diappoint, It was religious people whom brought Christ to the cross. Religion always closes the mind, and shuts down your heart.

Now, I was a rebellious youth, that put faith is the foundations of man made knowledge. Knowledge which roots' were planted at the beginning of the of this civilization. These roots that first settled into the earth, this is were time exists.

Truth in this world is merely a matter of perspective. Intellectuals love to speak of intellectualism as if it is absolute truth. When in fact, there are very few absolute truths in this world. Whatever anyone chooses to believe in, it is a their choice, and their choice determines truth. It is an act of faith. Faith in man, the world, or God. None of us know, So we believe by faith. That is the truth. MUCH RESPECT TO ALL...

[shifted]

Truth itself is a figment, because the consequence of an action is only as we think it will be. We sub-consciously place limitations and the boundaries are placed. Kinda like, when we watch the outcome, it behaves in a way we think it will..

What The Bleep will show a better explanation..

Anyway, the Bible, the Gospel of Christ, all very, very well written texts, but novels in my eyes. Made in the image of man, not in the image of one man. Made in the image of what man's power was at the time, and unfortunately, as we have devolved over time.. We have lost these abilities.. The power of a human being comes from the power of their thought.. The bigger you think.. the greater everything becomes. Christ is no different to the Egyptian GOD Horus, the devil no different to their Set. Same birthdate.. same story.. same worship.. same timeline.. Only difference is names. And the Astrological references are parallel..

It is not to say you are wrong in your thinking. I am in no way saying that at all. There are no mistakes in this existance, and everything has a purpose so consciousness can evolve. Mine has no ideals with anything religion based. For others, their will be. But the world is perfect, no matter what happens..

[nicodagift]

"Justice is what love looks like in public." ~Dr. Cornel West

Who defines justice?

[nicodagift]

“I speak as a Christian - one whose commitment to democracy is very deep but whose Christian convictions are even deeper. Democracy is not my faith. And American democracy is not my idol. To see the Gospel of Jesus Christ bastardized by imperial Christians and pulverized by Constantinian believers and then exploited by nihilistic elites of the American empire makes my blood boil. To be a Christian - a follower of Jesus Christ - is to love wisdom, love justice, and love freedom… If Christians do not exemplify this love and freedom, then we side with the nihilists of the Roman empire who put Jesus to a humiliating death. Instead of receiving his love in freedom as a life-enhancing gift of grace, we end up believing in the idols of the empire that nailed him to the cross… To be a Christian is to live dangerously, honestly, freely - to step in the name of love as if you may land on nothing, yet to keep stepping because the something that sustains you no empire can give you and no empire can take away. This is the kind of vision and courage required to enable the renewal of prophetic, democratic Christian identity in the age of the American empire.”

In todays soceity it takes BALLS TO BE A TRUE CHRISTIAN.
From Democracy Matters by Cornel West

[nicodagift]

But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate

I was once a young intellectual, spouting out rhythms of some historians genius, but....

As for me, all I know is that I know nothing.
Socrates

There were many gods of ancient worlds, but who still preaches their message?

[Kenshi]

There were many gods of ancient worlds, but who still preaches their message?

no one because people realized they are fake, the same will happen with all the others, they will turn in to myths unless the world ends before it happens

[shifted]

“I speak as a Christian - one whose commitment to democracy is very deep but whose Christian convictions are even deeper. Democracy is not my faith. And American democracy is not my idol. To see the Gospel of Jesus Christ bastardized by imperial Christians and pulverized by Constantinian believers and then exploited by nihilistic elites of the American empire makes my blood boil. To be a Christian - a follower of Jesus Christ - is to love wisdom, love justice, and love freedom… If Christians do not exemplify this love and freedom, then we side with the nihilists of the Roman empire who put Jesus to a humiliating death. Instead of receiving his love in freedom as a life-enhancing gift of grace, we end up believing in the idols of the empire that nailed him to the cross… To be a Christian is to live dangerously, honestly, freely - to step in the name of love as if you may land on nothing, yet to keep stepping because the something that sustains you no empire can give you and no empire can take away. This is the kind of vision and courage required to enable the renewal of prophetic, democratic Christian identity in the age of the American empire.”

In todays soceity it takes BALLS TO BE A TRUE CHRISTIAN.
From Democracy Matters by Cornel West

Balls to be a Christian?

I think it takes morality and ethics to not be one.

Like in your statement, linked to democracy.

How are people still blind to the fact that Religion & Politics should not mix? Yet they have for thousands of years because it is a way of manipulating the people, without them knowing? The barbaric acts that "Christians" took place in are epitome to their history.

Now, you say, to be a Christian is to love justice, freedom etc...

Yet the fact is, the fictional story of the bible, as an astrotheological literary hybrid that it is, was written in the image of man, by man. Not in the image of someone that does not exist. Jesus was nothing more than the personification of mankind. So to love justice, freedom and etc. is only to be HUMAN. To be the enlightened beings that we can become. Unfortunately, as stated before, we have devolved over time, and have lost much of our abilities due to the social deprivation, injustice, and down right manipulation of the systems we live by. To be human, so to have all those that by which we are free.. does not matter what religion you belong to..

You do not have to step in the face of love and fall on nothing, reality is everything is done in a state of love. The Universe has simple laws to follow, and all are based on the concept of love. The meaning of life, itself, is love. The expression of such, is gratitude. Two very fundamental points.

It does not matter what you do, what happens in life, it is all done in a quantum state of love, because the Universe knows that it is what you require for you to experience something in duality to know thyself as a whole. This, brings about enlightenment, and as we continue [enlightenment is the light of the soul] we become higher beings.

The Bible has been used, and obviously, very smartly as a tool to deprive people, to make people follow instead of lead, and the money made off it has proven it to be the quickest money maker there is. Unfortunately it so happens that it is so embedded because of the centuries of it instilled in politics and government that people do not see the difference in the two..

"In GOD we trust" is a common slogan used in America.. and it is appalling because in stead of the people knowing what it really means, they have been convinced that there is an imaginary man, sitting above the clouds, looking down at the Earth at everything you do and is ready to smite whoever does not head his way. But, HE LOVES YOU! Something so simple yet completely contradicted and hypocritical. Oh, and he needs money! LOTS OF MONEY! He cannot make his own personal bank account though!

In GOD we trust should be a direct translation to trusting in yourself. You are GOD. You are the Generator, the Orchestrator, and the Destroyer. What you do in life is solely based on your ability to think, and what you think about, you bring about. Whether sub-consciously or consciously.

Religion rakes in millions of tax free dollars each year and exercises their control and manipulation without worry. They have enough funds to make everyone in the world set-up in a life that is comfortable, yet there is still societies out there that do not even have the basics to live by..

I can understand people seek religion, and many do though unknowingly because they see it as an escape and a simple explanation, but the reality is that the life without religion, without the limitations, is the most beautiful life you can have. Free thinking, no concerns, no need to follow made up protocols..

[shifted]

no one because people realized they are fake, the same will happen with all the others, they will turn in to myths unless the world ends before it happens

On this note, the Buddhist teachings are those of not religion, but a way of life, and honestly, are true.

Religion seeks to exploit fear in humans, and the constant preaching of the shit makes me sick really. You see it everywhere and it has no bounds. No morality in itself, because every crime it denounces, it has done itself at some point..

What you run from, you run into.

What you condemn, you must do yourself to experience duality. So everything that the Catholic and Christian system condemns, it has at some point, is now, or will do in the future, the exact thing it condemns to an equal or greater degree..

There is no running from it..

And I don't care how much you may doubt it, but my certainty is definitely greater than your doubt..

Anything you condemn, or run from, you run into, because you have a lop-sided perception on it, and the world just does not work that way..

[xeno6919]

Oh religious debates, no one ever wins.

[Kenshi]

i know, im pretty sure shifted knows too. but its still worth a shot, love telling people my opinion :)


In GOD we trust should be a direct translation to trusting in yourself.

what they mean by putting it there isnt "trust your self" it is exactly what it sounds like, trust the man above. the government wants you to fear

and i dont think religion was created for wrong reasons. i think it was created by someone who felt the need to know how he got here and where he will go when he dies and knew others felt the same way, so he decided to help them and create this story so they can be "happier" ie:brain washed

[Cacteur]

Oh religious debates, no one ever wins.

Not so much religious debates, but debates about 'faith'... because it involves, trust, belief, confidence, conviction, optimism and hope, and, despite these states of mind being a reality for all of us, you cannot use logic when discussing them.

I saw someone mentioning democracy. Are you kidding? Believing in democracy involves as much suspension of reality as any religion does,... and capitalism...?... don't get me started... it's collapsing around our ears and still, many people have faith in it.

When talking about such things, the best you can hope for is politeness. Agreement will never happen. :trustme:

[xeno6919]

When talking about such things, the best you can hope for is politeness. Agreement will never happen. :trustme:

Best statement I have ever read sir.

[shifted]

That is why you must respect everyone's own opinion. :)

@Kenshi, that is why I wrote, SHOULD. Because at the moment yes, you are correct, it is based on fear. However, I wrote should, because what it SHOULD translate to. Not what it unfortunately is used for at the moment.

Religion was not created, in my opinion, by someone wanting answers. The Bible, being an astrotheological literary hybrid already had the answers when it was written as a fictional novel. The answers are all around, people just think too complex, instead of simple. The complications arise when people take the Bible as a text of truth. It was written in the image of man, just mere documentation.

Yes, it is open to interpretation but that is the beauty of discussions. :)

Because hey, we did not live in that time, so really, fuck knows what is going on! Most history is bullshit as it is biased and written on a lop-sided perception. So who knows. xD

[Kenshi]

got cha shifted, sorry for the misinterpretation

yeah im not a fan of history for that reason, you never know what is the truth and what is fabricated so i try to stray from history classes and stick with the language arts!

[nicodagift]

lol....no wait, maybe, your right?????????? NO...lol... Sincerely, I will pray for you. Like i said I was a young intellectual once, and put my belief in what I could see and/or read, etc.

Let me ask, you say that the world will end. How so?
Can you prove anything that you have said? or Do you believe it by faith?

The evil one said, " you will be like God, knowing good and evil." If man knowS more than God. What does man know? Can you prove that these anceint Gods existed or do you just choose to beleive what you read? Look, It is clear what I beleive, But I want you to ponder. WHAT DO YOU BELEIVE, AND WHY? If it is fact. HOW SO? ....and if it is not proven, than it is safe to say, that your beleifs exist through your faith. Faith... is part of our make up. It is an essentail component of how God made us. That is why there are a million other things to beleive in besides the Gospel. Man has an inherit urge to have faith in something, so there are a million distrations to blind you from the truth.
I CHALLENGE anyone to find one word in the holy bible that is not true!
I DARE YOU. CALL ME OUT.

http://pimpandhost.com/media/simple/1/thumbs/14c4f5cdf630_1.jpg (http://image.pimpandhost.com/guest/1623825_x.html)

I would love for you too. lol...lol...lol... GOOD LUCK!
Furthermore, " Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." hebrews 11:1

[nicodagift]

Religion seeks to exploit fear in humans, and the constant preaching of the shit makes me sick really. You see it everywhere and it has no bounds. No morality in itself, because every crime it denounces, it has done itself at some point.

Yes i believe in the the Gospel of Christ, But that in no way means that I defend the treachery of the church and the exploitation of the message. Wolves in sheep"s clothing exist in all sects of life. The message of the gospel has been lost in many ways. Jesus spoke of love, turning the other cheeck, and charity. Don't let someone else actions determinie your relationship with God, no matter what they call themselves.
Please note, I do not dispute anyone's belief, but understand that what ever it is. It is believed through faith. Hence, Faith exists. (but you can't see it.) lol...imagine that.

When talking about such things, the best you can hope for is politeness. Agreement will never happen
Agreed. I do not want to offend anyone.

Not so much religious debates, but debates about 'faith'... because it involves, trust, belief, confidence, conviction, optimism and hope, and, despite these states of mind being a reality for all of us, you cannot use logic when discussing them.
logic about faith always rock the boat.

Lastly, Democracy...Please.. I quoted Dr. West because I felt he had some good things to say, but Democracy...naw, America is going straight to hell. But i'm still gonna pray and take as many brothers/sisters that i can take with me to heaven.
grace and peace be upon you all....

[xeno6919]

LOL, wow.

[Rudolf]

I just don't believe in an organization that hides its wrongs.

You know the ones.

The guy the preachers love and faith, then afterwords goes out the back and ass fucks one of the little boys or who is in charge of an institution for the young and then commits unthinkable acts for their own sexual satisfaction.

Also the preacher that begs for money for the poor only to scam it and gambles and buy prostitutes.

Also the whole organization by it very nature prevents women from becoming an integral part of its makeup.

[Cacteur]

Yes i believe in the the Gospel of Christ, But that in no way means that I defend the treachery of the church and the exploitation of the message. Wolves in sheep"s clothing exist in all sects of life. The message of the gospel has been lost in many ways. Jesus spoke of love, turning the other cheeck, and charity. Don't let someone else actions determinie your relationship with God, no matter what they call themselves.
.......

So, what is this "Gospel of Christ" you believe nicodagift? I was bought up a Christian, and I always thought the 'gospel' was that, through Christ's sacrifice, we are all forgiven. Now I am told that only those that open their hearts to Christ are forgiven. Everyone else will roast in hell. If Jesus truly represents this jealous and spiteful God, then I was seriously misled. I am also not interested in this God. If heaven is going to involve a small group of Christian elite, void of the huge contribution non Christians have made over the millennium, then I'm off with the other crew. I'm quite happy to spend eternity in hell if I'm sitting next to Ghandi, and Buddha, and Krsna..... not too mention all those big fat hairy dirty girls..:evil3:

Seriously though. I accept a great man called Jesus lived two millennia ago, and bought a great wisdom to mankind, especially relevant to his era. A politician, a philosopher, a poet and story teller, a man with a kind and benevolent message, supported by a logic people found hard to deny. People were so impressed by this man, they first executed him, then, could not accept his death so turned him into the immortal son of God.

His message continued to be spread by word of mouth, and his followers became a vast army, so that 250 years after his death, the story of his life, as told by his disciples, recorded verbally by Jews in Hebrew, was finally recorded on paper, in Greek. A few hundred more years passed, and this philosopher became popular in Rome, and so, his story was recorded from the Greek, to Latin.

This document was tinkered with over the years, and totally rewritten a number of times, notably the total denial of the rights of women, and of their importance to the Jesus story by King Constantine, and, finally, 1600 years after Christ's death, this document was translated to English, similar, but not the same, as the language we are now communicating in.

It should come as no real surprise then, that this document, this Bible has almost no limit to the ways in which it can be interpreted. It contradicts itself over and over again, but this Bible, with it's demonstrable short comings is regarded by some as the Word of God, of Jesus' God. That it is not, is obvious to all but the believers. These believers have no basis in reason to accept this flawed book as the words of a perfect God, and so, we are told, it is all about faith.

So my question would be, faith in what? A feeling? A sense that this is the real thing? You say you believe in the 'Gospel of Christ'. How do you know what the 'Gospel of Christ is'? .. and why must one suspend simple reason, which I assume we were given by God, to believe this 'Gospel Of Christ' As I have said, the value of His basic message of co-operation, humility and benevolence is obvious to all, so why the deification? Why must he be the son of God? Why do some people find it so hard to believe he was, like us all, a human being. Surely... this is His real Gospel. He is one of us, and we are all capable of His thoughts and works and deeds. We are not naturally evil, we are naturally good.

And, why must I know what will happen to me after death, why must I prepare for the afterlife? Death happens to every living thing that has, is, or will ever live. Should we all spend the days of our lives preparing for death? Why? This strikes me as the height of self indulgence. Rushing around in life, trying to gain brownie points to put you in good position for life after death. And what are we trying to achieve? To be better than our fellow man, our brothers and sisters, to sit closer to God that the rest of the human family? Why? Will you fight if you believe you are not given the position you deserve?

All this petty, grubby, status seeking bullshit is anathema to my idea of paradise. One of the messages I got from reading about Jesus was the importance of humility. Humility will release you from the struggle for status, and false idolatry. So.. I believe in myself. I will live my life the way I think is the right way. I will hurt no-one, but will defend myself against being hurt, I'll judge no-one, but reserve the right to criticise, I'll be kind and friendly to all and expect nothing in return. When people are kind and friendly to me I will appreciate it, and when, and if, I face a judgement day, I will hold my head up high, and if, I simply melt away into the ground as worm food, I will be glad I didn't waste my life worrying about which God I believe in. I see myself as a very small insignificant part of the universe. My part in it will affect only those around me, so they are who I care about. To me, that's humility.

Agreed. I do not want to offend anyone.

I reckon you are doing OK. (Encouraging someones sense of the ridiculous doesn't count.;))


logic about faith always rock the boat.

Logic applied to faith will tip the boat over!

...... but Democracy...naw, America is going straight to hell. But i'm still gonna pray and take as many brothers/sisters that i can take with me to heaven.
grace and peace be upon you all....

To me heaven and hell are states of mind, and American paranoia has locked it into hell since the founding fathers first fearfully shot at those devil worshippin' Red Skins, rather than accept them as equals. That won't change until they finally learn to unclench their butts and let the bad air out. Good luck with your herding folks toward the pearly gates, but I'm just a humble little man, I'll take my chances with the punters in the cheap seats... :winner:

Peace on ya nicodagift.:D:D:D

[Rudolf]

That's it Cacteur, your simply possessed by the devil, hence why you say the things you do. I will pray for you.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9940/36268.gif

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/803/36229.gif

[Slashe50]

^^ Whoa, Cacteur, that's heavy right there.

[nicodagift]

wow Cacteur, that was a mouthful, alright let's see. I'm gonna try to address this point by point.
So, what is this "Gospel of Christ" you believe nicodagift?

Simply the Gospel are the sermons and message of Christ as Lord and Savior. The only way to be in covenant with God is through the acceptance of Christ, and his sacrifice for us.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed. Isaiah 53:5

This is one of the many prophecies written about Jesus thousands of years before he was born.

If heaven is going to involve a small group of Christian elite, void of the huge contribution non Christians have made over the millennium...

What?

I'm quite happy to spend eternity in hell if I'm sitting next to Ghandi, and Buddha, and Krsna

Once when the missionary E. Stanley Jones met with Ghandi he asked him, "Mr. Ghandi, though you quote the words of Christ often, why is that you appear to so adamantly reject becoming his follower?"

Ghandi replied, "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ." Those are Gandhi's words.

Buddha whom died more than 500 years before the birth of Christ said this.
And the Blessed One replied:

...'I am not the first Buddha Who came upon this earth, nor shall I be the last. In due time another Buddha will arise in the world, a Holy One, a supremely enlightened One, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a Master of angels and mortals. He will reveal to you the same eternal truths which I have taught you. He will preach to you His religion, glorious in its origin, glorious at the climax and glorious at the goal, in spirit and in the letter. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure, such as I now proclaim.' His disciples will number many thousands, while Mine number many hundreds.'
There are many in the Buddhists community that acknowledge that Buddha was speaking of Christ. Now Krishna, I don't know. But all and all God is the judge!

total denial of the rights of women
old testament
Miriam, was Moses's sister, a prophet and lead the exodus out of Egypt.
Deborah, prophet and lead the Irealites in battle
The book of Ruth which entailed the tale of a woman over coming triumph.
The book of Ester who became Queen in Persia
Mary Magdalene, whom Jesus saved from being stoned, and who Jesus 1st appeared to after his resurrection. The list goes on and on....

I am a woman, and I never got that message.

It contradicts itself over and over again

I challenged anyone to provide one word, verse, anything that did not ring true, but I got nothing. I think that your scared of being revealed to the light. Contradictions, you say...prove it!

So my question would be, faith in what? A feeling? A sense that this is the real thing? You say you believe in the 'Gospel of Christ'. How do you know what the 'Gospel of Christ is'?

Many years ago I would have never thought that I would be making this argument, but my eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord. For that, I am truly grateful. The gospel is revealed only through him. he is the way, the truth, and the life. You must seek God with your whole heart to answer that question. Not through the church, but through your heart. I was saved in my living room.

We are not naturally evil, we are naturally good.
I agree with this. It is the world that influences us.

And, why must I know what will happen to me after death, why must I prepare for the afterlife?
I'm not in it for browny points, and I want everyone to go to heaven. Which is why I'm exhausted but typing right now. With me it is not so much about the afterlife as it is about serving the Lord and fulfilling my God given destiny.

I face a judgement day, I will hold my head up high,

I will hang my head, because I am not perfect. I will make mistakes today, tomorrow, and forever. I am committed to living a righteous life, but in no way feel that i can look God in the eye, like, " recognize my deeds." Anyway, a friend asked me yesterday why do I even brother with this forum. He feels that it is a big waste of my time, but Jesus said, (Luke 5:31-32), "Healthy people don't need a doctor-sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent."

Grace and Peace unto to you all

[Rudolf]

Christianity is not the only religion, nor should it be forced down peoples throats.

Religious zealots do more harm preaching their personal beliefs to the masses than good.

Explain why/how the 10 commandments were chiseled on the temples of the Egyptians long before Christ was thought of and written in the Egyptian book of the dead around 2600 BCE .

(An answer without preaching would be nice)

http://edward.de.leau.net/the-10-commandments-are-a-copy-from-chapter-125-in-the-egyptian-book-of-the-dead-20070513.html

[xeno6919]

Most of the people that I know are some of the nicest people that you will meet ever, but they are not saved, will they go to hell for that reason only?

[stereoblind]

cacteur i love you.
we can share the devil
;)

[Cacteur]

......Simply the Gospel are the sermons and message of Christ as Lord and Savior.....

.. as interpreted by you after reading the Bible, a situation with flaws I've already explored.


The only way to be in covenant with God is through the acceptance of Christ,....


"co'venant (kú'-) n & v 1 n agreement, bargain; (Law) contract under seal, clause of this. (Bibl) Contract between God and the Israelites." Oxford Concise. So in Biblical terms you are suggesting that if I accept Christ, I will become Jewish? In lay terms, I cannot have an agreement with God unless I accept Jesus. I've already said that I accept he existed. What's the problem?

...and his sacrifice for us...

Aaahhh. Now we get to the tricky bit. Well, as I've also previously explained, I have no reason to believe he existed. That he was executed for his beliefs? Also entirely possible. That he reappeared to a bunch of superstitious followers who probably would have though they were in Gods presence if I lit a match in front of them? Also totally believable. Was this 'apparition' really Jesus in the flesh? That's where I stop being Christian. Nor do I see any reason for him to 'rise from the dead'. This, in no way enhances his basic message, it simply seems to re-enforce the very human concept of elitism. Ignore your own God given common sense, and accept this shaky theory, or you will never be one of us. Fine by me. I really don't want to be part of that petty little gang of jealous, judgemental bigots who call themselves Christians.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed. Isaiah 53:5

This is one of the many prophecies written about Jesus thousands of years before he was born.

... and you know of no other prophet this could have been written about? Have you read anything but the Bible? You see no need to do you. Therefore, you will always believe what your tiny little world wants you to believe. Have you ever heard of a man called Bahá'u'llah? A religious man who lived in Iran in the nineteenth century. He too was executed in 1840 by Iran's mullahs because of his religious beliefs. They used a firing squad. It took them three tries. They ended up having to use British soldiers because each muslim squad that failed fell to their knees in disbelief. This incident was reported in Newspapers of the day, you can check them. Any of the above statements could have been about Him. In fact, his followers use the Bible to prove His efficacy as the return of Christ.. "as a thief in the night. No one will recognise Him.." lest of all so called Christians, standing around waiting for a big "rapturous" explosion in the sky.

What?

If heaven is going to involve a small group of Christian elite, void of the huge contribution non Christians have made over the millennium...
.... I don't want to go there....

I realise the ability to use your brain must come as a bit of a shock to you, but try it sometime. It doesn't hurt, and you will not burn forever for doing so.

Once when the missionary E. Stanley Jones met with Ghandi he asked him, "Mr. Ghandi, though you quote the words of Christ often, why is that you appear to so adamantly reject becoming his follower?"

Ghandi replied, "Oh, I don't reject your Christ. I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ." Those are Gandhi's words.

Which pretty much proves my point don't you think? The Religions of the Levant, (ie, Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are the only religions that reject all others beliefs, something of an irony considering how closely related they all are, and it appears their believers total rejection of any other belief system, will drag the world into Hell in our lifetimes.... and, you are expecting thinking people to join one of these gangs?

Buddha whom died more than 500 years before the birth of Christ said this.
And the Blessed One replied:

...'I am not the first Buddha Who came upon this earth, nor shall I be the last. In due time another Buddha will arise in the world, a Holy One, a supremely enlightened One, endowed with wisdom in conduct, auspicious knowing the universe, an incomparable leader of men, a Master of angels and mortals. He will reveal to you the same eternal truths which I have taught you. He will preach to you His religion, glorious in its origin, glorious at the climax and glorious at the goal, in spirit and in the letter. He will proclaim a religious life, wholly perfect and pure, such as I now proclaim.' His disciples will number many thousands, while Mine number many hundreds.'
There are many in the Buddhists community that acknowledge that Buddha was speaking of Christ. Now Krishna, I don't know. But all and all God is the judge!

Of course he was talking about Christ,.... and Krsna, and Zoroaster, and Moses, and Mohammed. You seem to be avoiding explaining the part that say.. "nor will I be the last."


old testament
Miriam, was Moses' sister, a prophet and lead the exodus out of Egypt.
Deborah, prophet and lead the Irealites in battle
The book of Ruth which entailed the tale of a woman over coming triumph.
The book of Ester who became Queen in Persia
Mary Magdalene, whom Jesus saved from being stoned, and who Jesus 1st appeared to after his resurrection. The list goes on and on....

I am a woman, and I never got that message.

Yes.. the Old Testament. The 'pre Jesus' testament. King Constantine rewrote most of the new Testament, including references to Mary Magdalene. I am one of those of the opinion that her story in Jesus life has been vastly under rated by the Christian patriarchy. I think she was in fact the main disciple, and was closest to Jesus.


I challenged anyone to provide one word, verse, anything that did not ring true, but I got nothing. I think that your scared of being revealed to the light. Contradictions, you say...prove it!

Sigh... Why do Christians insist on people proving the negative. Isn't it up to you to prove to us it is true? And I don't mean "ring true", I mean 'is the ultimate truth". That is what you want people to believe right? If I tell you God resides in my fridge, wouldn't it be up to me to prove it?.. rather than trying to get you to prove that He isn't there? I've read the Bible, many, many times, probably more than you, and the most obvious contradiction is who Cain and Able married. Then there is the whole "eye for an eye" schemozzle. I'm not bothered to find more, but there are so many there you could call it the book of anomaly's



Many years ago I would have never thought that I would be making this argument, but my eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord. For that, I am truly grateful. The gospel is revealed only through him. he is the way, the truth, and the life. You must seek God with your whole heart to answer that question. Not through the church, but through your heart. I was saved in my living room.

This is kind of off the subject, but I have to tell you this. Back when I was about 10 years old or so, I'd come back from Bible class on a Sunday evening, and we'd met a couple who had had a personal revelation. They'd told us about flashes of lights, a sudden realisation of truth, the whole set of fireworks. Christianity to me had always been a calming, soothing, very very peaceful experience, and this story intrigued me. Lying in bed there, after evening prayers, thinking about it, when suddenly the whole room lit up. I was frightened, very frightened. I wasn't in anyway ready for this and I dropped to my knees by my bed and started praying. Soon the light disappeared, and I relaxed a little, then, it came again..!.... then disappeared,... then came again. I pulled the curtain across and the neighbours over our back fence had chopped a tree down. The headlights from cars exiting a street opposite them was shining straight into my bedroom window. Funny eh? I was seriously braced to meet Jesus face to face.


I agree with this. It is the world that influences us.

Yes.. the world, and all it's petty elitist sects and religions.


I'm not in it for browny points, and I want everyone to go to heaven. Which is why I'm exhausted but typing right now. With me it is not so much about the afterlife as it is about serving the Lord and fulfilling my God given destiny.

Think about what you are saying. You want everyone to go to Heaven. You want to fulfil your God given destiny. Surely you have no choice but to fulfil your God given destiny, as do we all. Isn't it up to God to decide who does or does not go to Heaven? I know the ambiguity Christians have about free choice is an old argument used against Christians but surely it is relevant. He either controls everything or he doesn't

I will hang my head, because I am not perfect. I will make mistakes today, tomorrow, and forever. I am committed to living a righteous life, but in no way feel that i can look God in the eye, like, " recognize my deeds." Anyway, a friend asked me yesterday why do I even brother with this forum. He feels that it is a big waste of my time, but Jesus said, (Luke 5:31-32), "Healthy people don't need a doctor-sick people do. I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners and need to repent."

I will hold my head high because I am honest. I am not perfect, I do not know the 'truth' about God and have never ever suggested I do. I have made many mistakes, and am proud of the way I have handled those mistakes. I too understand I will make more, but I also know I possess enough humility to overcome them. Maybe we are talking a cultural difference here. To Maori, and Polynesians generally, it is disrespectful to hang your head in front of an important person. You do not stare at them, but you hold your head high, and show them you have no deceit. If there is a God, and if I appear in front of his chair, I will do this. I have nothing to hide.

I think I've had this now nicodagift. I have no wish to change or even challenge your belief system. However, I will respond, with vigour when my beliefs are challenged. I am one of those people that is happy to accept our differences. I do not believe the only way to Nirvana is by following my lead. I have neither the arrogance, nor enough exaggerated self belief to even think that. Besides, most people would not believe my life anyway! Your friend maybe right. Perhaps you are wasting your time here. I can assure you, you are wasting your time with me. You are attempting to teach Granma how to suck eggs. Perhaps some of your message may get through to people, but, IMHO, not until you drop the 'holier than thou' attitude. Be humble, and in your humility, accept that you may not have all the answers, people respect that.

Grace and Peace unto to you all

And to you sistah... Cacteur... over and out....:)

[Cacteur]

cacteur i love you.
we can share the devil
;)

I'm gonna make you wear a little dress and hurt you. :evil2:

[Rudolf]

So, god lives in your fridge, Cacteur???

You just may have solved the greatest mystery that has plagued the world since the invention of the fridge, who switches the light on when you open the door. :lol:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9045/216war206fe0f.jpg

[nicodagift]

I believe Gandhi was saying, Christ and his gospel is great! but Christians hardly ever represent the gospel well. I couldn't agree with this more! To follow Christ is not to follow religion. Remember it was the religious people of the time that brought him to be crucified. Religion is not righteousness, you must leave religion behind, and walk with God. I do not attempt to shove anything down anyone's throat, but I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Yes, my friend thinks I am wasting my time here. I DON'T CARE WHAT HE THINKS. I love him, he is my best friend, but my steps are ordered by the lord.

as interpreted by you after reading the Bible, a situation with flaws I've already explored.
anything attempted by man will have flaws.

"co'venant (kú'-) n & v 1 n agreement, bargain; (Law) contract under seal, clause of this. (Bibl) Contract between God and the Israelites." Oxford Concise. So in Biblical terms you are suggesting that if I accept Christ, I will become Jewish? In lay terms, I cannot have an agreement with God unless I accept Jesus. I've already said that I accept he existed. What's the problem
You must believe with your whole heart that Jesus is the son of God, and that he died and rose as a sacrifice for the world's sins. No, accepting Christ does not make you Jewish. The Jewish community must accept Christ as well, and truly one day they will.

That's where I stop being Christian. Nor do I see any reason for him to 'rise from the dead'. This, in no way enhances his basic message, it simply seems to re-enforce the very human concept of elitism.

He rose to beat sin and death. Also, the spirit lives on. When the end comes it will not be our flesh that goes to heaven or hell, but our spirits which will live eternally. ELITISM? Jesus was not an elitists, there are the elite in all sects of life and that way is headed in the wrong direction. We are all God's children, no matter what we call him, we must love one another, just like God loves us. Simply, elitism is not righteous.

Yes.. the Old Testament. The 'pre Jesus' testament. King Constantine rewrote most of the new Testament, including references to Mary Magdalene. I am one of those of the opinion that her story in Jesus life has been vastly under rated by the Christian patriarchy. I think she was in fact the main disciple, and was closest to Jesus.

I wouldn't argue with that, I have reason to beleive that myself, BUT the message is sacred, not the method. It is more important to break the lie about what following Christ really means. This lie has been created over time by the church as well as science, etc.

If I tell you God resides in my fridge, wouldn't it be up to me to prove it?.. rather than trying to get you to prove that He isn't there? I've read the Bible, many, many times, probably more than you, and the most obvious contradiction is who Cain and Able married. Then there is the whole "eye for an eye" schemozzle. I'm not bothered to find more, but there are so many there you could call it the book of anomaly's

The question of Cain's wife been bandied about for centuries, Cain's wife was probaly his sister. No on knows. You referred to Abel's wife, but I wonder if you meant Seth. There no biblical record of Abel having taken a wife, or of having children, but Seth would have taken his wife as Cain did.

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[a] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. matt 5: 38 -39
From Jesus's sermon on the mount, also the sermon Gandhi quoted the most.

43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[b] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

It not my job to prove anything, I said in this forum many times, what ever is believed is believed by faith. I as a christian attempt to answer all questions, in attempt to plant the seed, but God allows the seed to grow.

Satan knows the bible word for word. When he tempted Jesus he would qoute scripture and spin it against Jesus. It didn't work..lol..

Maybe we are talking a cultural difference here. To Maori, and Polynesians generally, it is disrespectful to hang your head in front of an important person.

that may be possible.

I have no wish to change or even challenge your belief system. However, I will respond, with vigour when my beliefs are challenged.

in the beginning I was talking about faith. I aired that no matter what we believe it is believed through faith. That is TRUE. I mentioned that Jesus is the Savior, and the room went in an uproar. I will also respond with vigor. Now, God is the judge, not me! In the pursuit of truth obstacles must be endured.

Perhaps some of your message may get through to people, but, IMHO, not until you drop the 'holier than thou' attitude. Be humble, and in your humility, accept that you may not have all the answers, people respect that.

Holier than thou...Not at all. If that is the impression I gave, well, than I am truly sorry. I have stated many times in this forum, that no matter how much knowledge anyone attains, we know nothing. The only reason I'm still typing is because i feel that I have too. Both sides must be presented. I do not think I am better than any of you. In fact, I believed what you believed 10 years ago. I understand completely where your coming from, more than you kno

MAYBE, YOU THINK "I'M HOLIER THAN THOU," BECAUSE I WILL NOT INSULT YOU LIKE YOU HAVE INSULTED ME. ????? ANYWAY, IF YOU FEEL THAT I AM PREACHING. LET ME ASK, " IS CACTUER PREACHING?" We are two people not afraid to put it out there, I thank you sir Cactuer. We don't have to agree, believe me I'm cool with that. Oh, by the way, I am very familiar with Baha'ullah. He also went on record about Jesus.

"Jesus Christ is revered in the Baha'i Faith as a Manifestation of God, and anyone who embraces the Baha'i Faith - regardless of their religious background -- also recognizes the universal redemptive significance of Jesus Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, as expressed in the following moving testimony from Baha'u'llah's own pen:

Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit."

It is only natural for you to insult my intelligence. That attitude stems from the hostility of the message I speak of. It is so convenient for people to dismiss God based on the ignorance of others. That is just as logical as saying all Polynesians are one way, and all Americans are another way.

Grace and peace unto you all :)


esus Christ is revered in the Baha'i Faith as a Manifestation of God, and anyone who embraces the Baha'i Faith - regardless of their religious background -- also recognizes the universal redemptive significance of Jesus Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, as expressed in the following moving testimony from Baha'u'llah's own pen:

Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

[Rudolf]

What about the commandments written in the book of the dead. Still no reply/

[nicodagift]

Christianity is not the only religion, nor should it be forced down peoples throats.

Religious zealots do more harm preaching their personal beliefs to the masses than good.

Explain why/how the 10 commandments were chiseled on the temples of the Egyptians long before Christ was thought of and written in the Egyptian book of the dead around 2600 BCE .

(An answer without preaching would be nice)

http://edward.de.leau.net/the-10-commandments-are-a-copy-from-chapter-125-in-the-egyptian-book-of-the-dead-20070513.html


After the exodus from Egypt, God sent Moses, whom lead Israel, God sent him alone into Mt. Zion which is where Moses received the 10 commandments. The entire story is documented in Exodus of the old testament. This was thousands of years before the birth of Jesus.

[nicodagift]

most of the people that i know are some of the nicest people that you will meet ever, but they are not saved, will they go to hell for that reason only?

god is the judge. I don't know.

[Rudolf]

So your saying moses boys chiseled them into the temples.

Origins

Some historians believe that the Ten Commandments originated from ancient Egyptian religion, and postulate that the Biblical Jews borrowed the concept after their Exodus from Egypt. Chapter 125 of the Book of the Dead (the Papyrus of Ani) includes a list of things to which a man must swear in order to enter the afterlife. These sworn statements bear a remarkable resemblance to the Ten Commandments in their nature and their phrasing. These statements include "not have I defiled the wife of man," "not have I committed murder," "not have I committed theft," "not have I lied," "not have I cursed god," "not have I borne false witness," and "not have I abandoned my parents." The Book of the Dead has additional requirements, and, of course, doesn't require worship of YHWH.

[nicodagift]

So your saying Moses boys chiseled them into the temples.

The book of the dead.... There are some similarity between the Egyptian and Hebrew texts. Historians estimate the dates of these two texts, but do not know for sure. The similarities are scarce and the practice associated of the two texts are polar opposites.

[Rudolf]

The book of the dead.... There are some similarity between the Egyptian and Hebrew texts. Historians estimate the dates of these two texts, but do not know for sure. The similarities are scarce and the practice associated of the two texts are polar opposites.

Well, Well, Well. You sure the devil did not travel back in time and do this?

Comparison of ancient Egyptian and Hebrew texts:
A comparison of the Book of the Dead text with the version of the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20:2-17 is striking. Both consist of a series of negative statements.

Comparing another translation of the Book with the King James Version of Exodus:

Book of the Dead: "I have done away sin for thee and not acted fraudulently or deceitfully. I have not belittled God. I have not inflicted pain or caused another to weep. I have not murdered or given such an order. I have not used false balances or scales. I have not purloined (held back) the offerings to the gods. I have not stolen. I have not uttered lies or curses."
Exodus 20:7-16: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain....Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery...Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor..." 6,7


Now we're getting somewhere.

The Book of the Dead was written circa 1800 BCE. 2 The Schofield Reference Bible estimates that the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt and the provision of the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai occurred in 1491 BCE., some three centuries later. Thus, many religious liberals, historians, and secularists have concluded that the Hebrew Scripture's Ten Commandments were based on this earlier document, rather than vice-versa.



Seems that if there is only one God.

Then there are a lot of splinter groups all claiming to be those who follow the one.

So what makes your God different to the other religions that worship the same god but use a different language.

[Cacteur]

@nicodagift. Did you not understand me? I said I am not interested in changing your beliefs, or in challenging them. I have outlined my position and you have not addressed that at all. I am not the whole room. I speak for myself.

I call you ignorant because you insult me and all other non Christians, but, because of your miss guided arrogance you can't even see it. I see that as your problem, not mine. This ignorance will be your downfall.

In reference to Bahá'ullah. I am trying to point out that Christianity is one of the few religions that reject the relevance of all other religions. You continually draw reference to the Great Prophets' comments about Jesus. This proves my point. They do not claim they are the only way to God. I don't believe Jesus did either. I believe it has come from ignorant people who claim to be Christians... like you.

ELITISM!... no, Jesus was not elitist... you are.
élit/e (álé't) n 1. the choice part, the best, (of a group);...; select group or class. 2. Hence ~ ISM advocacy of or reliance on leadership or dominance of a select group; so IST

I believe you are 'holier than thou' because you feel you know the truth and no one else does. I believe you are 'holier than thou' because that is how I see all preachers. You are preaching. This is what Christianity has become. A cult of preachers.

You are, like most preachers, arrogant. You have no idea of the philosophies and beliefs of the people you preach to. You assume they know nothing, and so insult them with this assumption. I know very little about you except what you have said here, and that is all I am addressing. I shoot straight. I believe that is the honourable thing to do. This shows my respect for you.

You also know very little about me. I don't see how responding to your insults to common intelligence can be interpreted as 'preaching', but then, I don't see you as all that clever at the moment. You will eventually discover that the 'revelation fever' will wain over time, and you will recover some semblance of respect for others. You may become interesting to talk to by then, but for now, you are like a kid who thinks he is the first person in the world to learn how to ride a bike. Quite cute, but oh so boring after time...

I am over this discussion.. really. Have a safe journey nicodagift.. it will get rough.. but you will get there.. believe me.

[nicodagift]

Well, Well, Well. You sure the devil did not travel back in time and do this?



Now we're getting somewhere.





Seems that if there is only one God.

Then there are a lot of splinter groups all claiming to be those who follow the one.

So what makes your God different to the other religions that worship the same god but use a different language.

There are historians, etc. on both sides of that argument. Both make compelling points. I don't know which came first the chicken or the egg. But we all know that the Chicken and the egg both exist. The texts that you speak of from the book of the dead are rituals that took place after a person had died, in order to cleanse one's soul. The ten commandments in the Hebrew Bible are laws of the covenant that God has with the Jewish faith. Truly, I don't feel that people who worship in different languages but essentially believe the same things are wrong. If anything it is a stone set in motion towards a common goal. Buddhists, Muslims, Hinduism - @ the core of all of these beliefs is love. There are Muslims, etc. that take the message and flip it on it's ear, but the message of the text is love. It is all part of God's grand plan.

[Kenshi]

There are Muslims, etc. that take the message and flip it on it's ear,
you cant single out muslims, there are PEOPLE that take the message and flip it.

[nicodagift]

@nicodagift. Did you not understand me? I said I am not interested in changing your beliefs, or in challenging them. I have outlined my position and you have not addressed that at all. I am not the whole room. I speak for myself.

I call you ignorant because you insult me and all other non Christians, but, because of your miss guided arrogance you can't even see it. I see that as your problem, not mine. This ignorance will be your downfall.

In reference to Bahá'ullah. I am trying to point out that Christianity is one of the few religions that reject the relevance of all other religions. You continually draw reference to the Great Prophets' comments about Jesus. This proves my point. They do not claim they are the only way to God. I don't believe Jesus did either. I believe it has come from ignorant people who claim to be Christians... like you.






ELITISM!... no, Jesus was not elitist... you are.
élit/e (álé't) n 1. the choice part, the best, (of a group);...; select group or class. 2. Hence ~ ISM advocacy of or reliance on leadership or dominance of a select group; so IST

I believe you are 'holier than thou' because you feel you know the truth and no one else does. I believe you are 'holier than thou' because that is how I see all preachers. You are preaching. This is what Christianity has become. A cult of preachers.

You are, like most preachers, arrogant. You have no idea of the philosophies and beliefs of the people you preach to. You assume they know nothing, and so insult them with this assumption. I know very little about you except what you have said here, and that is all I am addressing. I shoot straight. I believe that is the honourable thing to do. This shows my respect for you.

You also know very little about me. I don't see how responding to your insults to common intelligence can be interpreted as 'preaching', but then, I don't see you as all that clever at the moment. You will eventually discover that the 'revelation fever' will wain over time, and you will recover some semblance of respect for others. You may become interesting to talk to by then, but for now, you are like a kid who thinks he is the first person in the world to learn how to ride a bike. Quite cute, but oh so boring after time...

I am over this discussion.. really. Have a safe journey nicodagift.. it will get rough.. but you will get there.. believe me.

Elitist I am not. Ignorant hardly. I speak with authority because I know what I speak of. Your point of view is old to me. I have been there, and spoke about it just a passionately as you do. What is interesting is that you say that I have not acknowledged your point of view. But I have, you don't want to acknowledge that because than you might have to actually acknowledge that the basis for everything you said is falling apart, and you believe as much by faith as I do.

[nicodagift]

you cant single out muslims, there are PEOPLE that take the message and flip it.

That was just an example, all walks of life screw up the message in some way.

[nicodagift]

I call you ignorant because you insult me and all other non Christians, but, because of your miss guided arrogance you can't even see it. I see that as your problem, not mine. This ignorance will be your downfal

You state your position and I state mine, but for some reason I'm insulting. When the actions are the same, just the message is different. You attempted to engage me about my beliefs, and I accepted. What is wrong with that? You spoke with just as much authority as I have. Yet, I do not insult you, because I am not threaten by your point of view.

[Kenshi]

i respect you nico because you believe in Christianity strongly but i feel you never try to shove it down throats and you never push other opinions away, you listen AND you speak.

[Rudolf]

There are Muslims, etc. that take the message and flip it on it's ear,

A Freudian slip hey governor.

[nicodagift]

A Freudian slip hey governor.

not quite, It was just am example. I have just as much respect for the teachings of Mohammed as I do for the Gospel of Christ. It's just that I connect with one more so than the other.

[shifted]

Kenshi, that quote you have, shows exactly how single-minded any Religious person can be..

Seems he is no different to the Christian I have at work..

Hates Muslims, believes they are the problem.. yet Christians have had a more colourful history, and regardless, there will always be a war between them for power..

You cannot say that they took it and flipped it, cos that is bullshit. Their GOD is no different to yours, both taken off the image of Horus from Egypt. You can chose to be blind to the knowledge that exists, but saying another religion is worse, just shows how unaccepting Christians are..

I have mates that are Muslims, I have mates that are Christians, I do not care about the Religion and I get along with them fine.. they do too. Because they know, that the only war being made is one for power, for dominance, but they know it will never happen..

Everything is in duality.. you cannot have one, without the other... so the quest for power, has to do the exact opposite somewhere else for the same group chasing it..

Anyway, I have missed a few pages, so I will make sure I read them over and reply to everything I feel like later today..

[nicodagift]

Kenshi, that quote you have, shows exactly how single-minded any Religious person can be..

Seems he is no different to the Christian I have at work..

Hates Muslims, believes they are the problem.. yet Christians have had a more colourful history, and regardless, there will always be a war between them for power..

You cannot say that they took it and flipped it, cos that is bullshit. Their GOD is no different to yours, both taken off the image of Horus from Egypt. You can chose to be blind to the knowledge that exists, but saying another religion is worse, just shows how unaccepting Christians are..

I have mates that are Muslims, I have mates that are Christians, I do not care about the Religion and I get along with them fine.. they do too. Because they know, that the only war being made is one for power, for dominance, but they know it will never happen..

Everything is in duality.. you cannot have one, without the other... so the quest for power, has to do the exact opposite somewhere else for the same group chasing it..

Anyway, I have missed a few pages, so I will make sure I read them over and reply to everything I feel like later today..

do not take my statement and flip it on its ear. :lol: There are plenty of stupid people in this world. In general people are unaccepting of anything that they can not conceive. IN GENERAL TERMS, OF COURSE. I hate no one, but I can only speak for myself. The KKK is a christian based hate group, and I am a black-american christian. But, I am sure that The KKK and I are not fighting for the same cause. Hence, interpretation is a fotha-mucking, ya digg. Grace and peace unto you all

[Cacteur]

Elitist I am not. Ignorant hardly. I speak with authority because I know what I speak of. Your point of view is old to me. I have been there, and spoke about it just a passionately as you do. What is interesting is that you say that I have not acknowledged your point of view. But I have, you don't want to acknowledge that because than you might have to actually acknowledge that the basis for everything you said is falling apart, and you believe as much by faith as I do.

Pure, unadulterated arrogance...:) I'm not interested.

[shifted]

You speak with a passion.. nico;

Yet you also miss many points blindly.

Regardless of what anyone says, you can have as strong an opinion as you like, but until you see the duality in the existance it is nothing.

I can respect and now, tolerate your opinion as much as you like, but it is beating around the bush.

You have found essence and passion in your religion, and again, agreement will never occur on such a trivial discussion, but I do believe, one day, you, as well as many other people will see the light, and enlightenment.

I have seen enough of the Christian religion through a Private Catholic education, and the contradiction, and hypocrisy every single day for 5 years was just the start of my knowlegde kicking over and searching for the REAL truth. Even in primary school it was evident. I went through Baptism, I went through Communion, and I went through Confirmation, you are searching through faith for something that is not there, and the evidence through the entirety of the worlds history, and a lot of what is happening in the world now has its background within the Catholic/Christian sect. More so than anything else..

A great reference for you I believe is ZEITGEIST. It will not show you duality, but it will explain clearly what religion is, and how the Catholic/Christian has occurred, and how it is a direct copy of the original Horus of Egypt story, which only was the explanation of the Sun rising, and setting during the year, just like the story of Jesus is.

I will put authority, in truth.

Not take misguided truth as the authority. All religion is, is misguided truth, and unfortunately its presence in this worlds existance is only furthering the socio-economic decline of many a population..

I wonder, have you ever been yourself to a country run by a religion? Africa itself? Maybe even, India? Nepal? Seen what they do to each other? You speak of Christianity like it is the reality, like no other religion out there is worthwhile chasing, and you offer to pray for me..

Mate, I do not need to be prayed for. I love every aspect of my life, I am grateful for everything I have, and I would not have it any different, and I cannot wait for the next day to come to experience more, I do not need religion for me to know how to experience life, nor do I need be blinded by a religion that tells me I must trust some guy in a cloud, when I bring about everything in my life. :)

What you think of, you manifest into your reality..

Unfortunately some countries are over-run with religion seekers and shit like that, with only an aim to maintain control over a country.. and Africa, with its rich abundance of Diamonds, is a wonderful example of such manipulation occurring still at this day..

Your religion is no different to any others.

My apologies if you feel I have offended you, but like I said, there will never be any agreement on such a controversial topic.. I just wish I would live to the day that the new religion starts.. a new re-incarnation of the same story repeated again.. they say it happens roughly at every AGE.. and the references themselves are within the bible, as it is a FICTIONAL ASTROTHEOLOGICAL HYBRID..

Anyway, I am gonna watch some House. :)

[nicodagift]

I respect all you guys. And you know, Cacteur is right. When it comes to my faith, I am arrogant. I respect other opinions, BUT, I go hard for what I believe in. I got a little defensive, but, truly it's nothing but love over here.

Grace and Peace unto all of you...:)

[xeno6919]

There we go, that's what it all boils down to. Everyone believe in what they want to believe because no one will change your mind. Respect others opinions and may they respect yours.

[Cacteur]

I respect all you guys. And you know, Cacteur is right. When it comes to my faith, I am arrogant. I respect other opinions, BUT, I go hard for what I believe in. I got a little defensive, but, truly it's nothing but love over here.

Grace and Peace unto all of you...:)

You grow wiser by the minute kemo saby.. :)

A Maori proverb..

"Me haere i raro i te kahu korako"

It is best to travel beneath the white hawk. ie It pays to travel under the protection of a Great Chief.

May you do honour to your Great Chief nicodagift.

[Rudolf]

Now that everything is lovely dovey, I think it's time for a good old fashion Spanish Inquisition.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1342/spanishinquisition1abe5.jpg

[Cacteur]

Now that everything is lovely dovey, I think it's time for a good old fashion Spanish Inquisition.
...

Fuck lovey dovey...and bored wid Xtians.... any Raelians in da house?? :evil3:

[Rudolf]

Its good to see, no matter how twisted you are, there is a cult that will welcome you :)

Short List of "Cults", Aberrational Christian,
and Other Controversial Groups

http://www.neirr.org/ncultlst.html

[shifted]

I think Cacteur is in one of his own. :p lol

[Kenshi]

Mate, I do not need to be prayed for. I love every aspect of my life, I am grateful for everything I have, and I would not have it any different, and I cannot wait for the next day to come to experience more, I do not need religion for me to know how to experience life, nor do I need be blinded by a religion that tells me I must trust some guy in a cloud, when I bring about everything in my life.

i feel the same way, i dont need to think there is some big happy ending or that someone is up there protecting me to be happy. just like my mom is always reading joyce meyers books to "better her self" i tell her its a waste of time, read stephen king. you shouldnt have to read a book to better your self, unless it is full of facts and you are gaining knowledge. YOU should make YOU who you are

[Cacteur]

I think Cacteur is in one of his own. :p lol

I've pretty much tried 'em all shifted, but I eventually came to the conclusion that, living your life worrying about who the real God is, or what we are really here for, or weather or not there is an afterlife, etc., is a bit like going to the beach on a sunny day, and sitting in a tent watching Bay Watch on a portable telly. People who think that is really dumb, are welcome to join my cult.

Here's a quote I've always liked from a Shakya Buddhist bloke called Thich Nhat Hanh:

People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don't even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child -- our own two eyes. All is a miracle.

.. so party on bruddah... it's all good. :afro:

[Kenshi]

ill join your cult

[st00pidN3wb]

good damn question is all i can say

[Tyler Durden]

that is an awesome quote